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Rise Against
Interview with Tim McIlrath on Nov 26, 2008 by
If you're looking for a marquee punk band in today's popular music (besides Green Day), there's no need to look any further than Rise Against. Starting out as small fish in the immense Chicago punk rock pond, Rise Against were eventually signed to Fat Wreck and then Geffen, where they've have continued to grow. I had a chance to check in with one of my favorite current vocalists, Tim McIlrath, at Power Plant in Baltimore. The photos, on the other hand, were taken in Chicago by our own Bill Jones. Anyway, My brother, who was allowed to sit in on the interview, said it best when he commented that Tim was one of the most well-spoken people he had ever met. I couldn't agree more. Enjoy!
Interview by: Ian Lashbrook
Photos by: Williams Jones
You wanna go ahead and introduce yourself first?
Tim McIlrath: Yeah, sure, my name's Tim, I'm with Rise Against.
Alright, so you guys are out on tour right now with Alkaline Trio, Thrice, Gaslight Anthem; how's the tour been goin so far?
TM: Really good. I think that we expected it to go really well cause it's some awesome bands, but it's been just as good, if not better. I mean, Alkaline have been our boys from Chicago for a long time now, I mean I used to go to Alkaline shows when I was fifteen years old, when I was in high school, at Veterans' Halls, so that's been really rad. And Thrice, both our bands started around the same time, they were signed to Hopeless, we were signed to Fat [Wreck Chords] and doin' records and each tryin' to navigate this whole world together, so it's cool to meet back up here so many years later after our careers have taken off. It gets harder and harder to find your friends to tour with any more. I mean all the bands you started with eight years ago have kinda fallen off and are doing something else...or hopefully they're still here. So it's rarer and rarer that bands like Akaline and Thrice are still here and it's cool to add something new to the mix with Gaslight Anthem.
Were you a fan of Gaslight before the tour got booked?
TM: I really didn't know who they were to be honest. The rest of the guys, I know Joe [Principe, bassist] turned me on to them and said they were a really cool band, we should take them on tour and that they were cool, but I never really got around to listening to them until the most recent record and I thought, "This is perfect." Not just a cool band, but a cool complement to the tour. I mean we both have such a different sound. But everybody is so different, taking different inspirations and different backgrounds; everyone is doing their own thing. I think it's a rare thing to find shows like that these days.
I agree. We actually always talk about how varied shows seem to be less and less. It seems that it used to be you'd get an emo band, a hardcore band, and a metal band all on the same show, but now you don't really see that anymore. It's all the same sound goin' round.
TM: Yeah. I think bands wanna play it safe and are so afraid of diversifying their lineup and think, "Ohh, well, these guys aren't gonna like us," or, "Their kids won't like us." And we're taking Sage Francis on tour across Canada and it's gonna be totally different, but it's just important music, important stuff, whether it's rap or punk or whatever.
So you guys went back to the Blasting Room to do the new record; what was the draw to go back there? Was it just working with Bill [Stevenson] again or was there a comfort?
TM: Yeah, it's a little bit of both for sure, working with Bill and Jason [Livermore] certainly. It's something we look forward to doing. I mean, they're so good at reading us and understanding the songs and what state they're in. I mean, we could play them a riff and they know what we're talking about. I think so few producers nowadays get that, they don't understand that. It's hard to find the right producer to understand that yeah, our band got bigger and we play bigger places like this [Ram's Head Live in Baltimore] and we get played on the radio and stuff but we're still a punk band and we still do things rooted in punk and we don't want to work with a producer who won't get that. And they totally get it. It's like coming home again to work with those guys; they're just such talented dudes, Bill and Jason.
Yeah. It seems that they put out some of the best punk records every year and they're always so amazingly produced, the albums are just perfect sounding.
TM: Yeah, and what I love about them, too, is that they're never just content with what they did last time, they wanna push it and do something more; whatever they did the last record or the record before that, they wanna go out and make it so much better. They're not just gonna rest on their laurels, they wanna push it and progress. They do so many crazy records nowadays, everything from The Casualties to Lemonheads.
And they work with A Wilhelm Scream, too.
TM: Wilhelm, yeah. They do all kinds of stuff. And it's a really cool studio and they're constantly learning and growing.
Well, talking about a band with punk roots and a punk mentality, especially a band like yours that's political and picks up a lot of political causes and tries to make people aware, do you think it's difficult to try and balance between being on a major label and pushing, like Anti-Flag being on RCA, pushing a political message? It seems like that's oftentimes frowned upon when being a punk outfit or a political band.
TM: I never really have that problem. I mean the last time I had a problem with a big label was like when I was in high school and Bad Religion signed. I was like, "Aww, man, my favorite band just signed to a major label." And I think that was just, not so much about being part of a major label, just that I felt like I was losing my band to the greater public, you know what I mean? I had to share them with more people and share those shows with them, and I think that was what I got bummed out by a lot and I think that's what our fans get bummed out by a lot, too. If you wanna talk about the nature of major labels, I mean everything exists within this capitalist system, no matter what you do, no matter how...whether it's Geffen or Dischord, we all exist in that system and so without breaking outside that system, which is, frankly, almost impossible to do in this country, then it's about who can give you the biggest bullhorn, who can give you the biggest platform to get your music out to the most people? And for us, it was that label [Geffen]. And we're certainly not naïve to all the horror stories about major labels with other bands of our time, ya know, everybody from Jawbreaker to Samiam to Smoking Popes and all our favorite bands that signed and got fucked and then broke up. Those were certainly concerns of ours. We've been around long enough to know this certainly happens. Going into it, perhaps we learned from those bands' mistakes, or at least we learned from their example, so if we go into this, we go into it on our terms - creative control, obviously, those type of things - and we need to know that we're not relying on this label for anything. Like, if this is a label that we're just gonna visit for a couple records and then take off and go do more records with Fat next year, we're okay with that. We never relied on that label and we never lived in fear of being dropped and we still don't. All that matters to me is tonight, right now, the kids that will pile into this room to sing our songs. Whatever label you slap on the back of that CD, I mean, I could give a shit. And we're lucky to have people who really understand that we like to be left alone, at least with our label. I think that they've sort of admitted that they don't know what the fuck we do, but it's working, so keep doing it. That's all anybody wants, certainly in today's day and age where the lines between major and indie are blurred.
Well, almost every indie is distributed by some arm or leg of a major at this point anyway.
TM: Yeah, and indies are sometimes more desperate for that radio hit than the majors are. No one's ever looked at me and said, "You need to go back and write a single." No one's ever told me you have to wear this or tour with this band or your songs need to sound like this, you need to go to this producer, you need to tone down that t-shirt, or you can't do this video - no one's ever said that to us, no one's ever said no to us. And I talk to friends on indie labels and they get shit done to them all the time - change your look, or something, from indie labels! So for some kid to be like, "Ohh, you sold out because you signed to a major label," and for me to hear these stories about indie labels who are doing shit, there's a huge disconnect in reality. But, at the same time, going back to my original point of when Bad Religion signed, I sympathize with that kid because I was that kid, so I've got no resentment towards somebody who walks up to me and says, "You left me out in the cold when you signed to a major label." I know, I was there, I felt bad, so all it takes is to really explain to them what it is we really do and then to ask them what it is we've really done to leave them out in the cold? When you talk about it, we haven't done anything; we're doing the same things we've always done.
Well, I wanna talk about your packaging a bit. Obviously you're pushing the eco-friendly packaging and I was curious if it ultimately costs more to do that and do you think you're kind of dividing lines by spending more money and throwing money away to try and get a message out there rather than using that money for better causes and just directly donating it to charities?
TM: Yeah, I guess you're right, you can't win either way. Like, if we had put it out in a jewel case that was made in a factory in another part of the world, then we get shit for making a jewel case. And if you make an eco-case, you get shit cause you spent money on it. In that sort of thing, I'll take the eco-case any day of the week. It is more expensive, you're right. It's more expensive, it was something we had to talk the label into doing, for sure. And not all of them are gonna be that way. That's just the first 200,000 that are like that and then we go to this eco-friendly jewel case which is really ugly, but it's eco-friendly...it's kinda frosted so you can't even really see it. It's really bad. So, if you buy the record in like a year or two, that's probably what you're gonna get, but it's eco-friendly. I mean, how many days do you listen to records? They're in your Ipod, let's be honest. And then, should we sell 500,000 I think, then I think it goes to a standard jewel case. But it did cost more money, but the reason it cost more money is because doing things like this aren't popular yet, so the infrastructure to make those things aren't quite there where as the plant that pops out a million jewel cases a day for Universal, Geffen, A&M, is just there, you just gotta give'em the stuff at the factory. To do the eco thing, it's a little different. But if the eco thing becomes popular and people choose to do it and people are perhaps inspired by our record, then all of a sudden it becomes more economically viable. It's like everything. Everything from vegetarian food, to green materials; the more people use them, the more money there will be in there for companies to actually turn a profit and then they'll wanna be a part of it and then they'll make it cheaper because they'll be competing with each other, etc, etc. So, I'm happy it's out there and hopefully it will set an example and hopefully there will be a time where we don't have to make any jewel cases and everything is just eco-friendly. Why wouldn't everything be eco-friendly? What's the point? The only real point is that the system in place is cheaper, but as long as we rely on that argument...
Alright, we'll just end with a few quick questions. If Rise Against could share the stage on one night with any four bands, living, dead, broken up, whatever, who would you wanna play with.
TM: Wow. Minor Threat, for sure. I would say Fugazi, but I've seen Fugazi.
Have you seen The Evens?
TM: Yeah. I've heard them, but I haven't seen them.
It's cool, they let kids in for free and then they make people let the kids up front, like little kids. They encourage people to bring their kids and then they let them up front so they can sit and watch.
TM: The Evens was such a brilliant thing for a number of reasons. Obviously, anything Ian [MacKaye] did, it was way political in the sense that...I don't know if you've read any interviews about The Evens, but they were talking about going out and doing shows and they realized that we all do shows at places like this, some beer ad somewhere and some Guitar Hero ad somewhere, and he said I don't wanna do shows there. And he realized that the only different between this and playing anywhere else is the sound system and the capability to do a super loud show. If we have to do a super loud show, then this is the place to do it, but he revolted against that and he realized that if he could do things quietly, he could do it anywhere. No permits, no one taking 15% of your t-shirt sales. It was such a brilliant idea and it really worked. And he did that whole tour and it was at bookstores and cafes and public places and art galleries. He came to Chicago and did something at the park district and it was just so awesome. And that guy's living the dream, to be able to go out and do it...
He figured out how to get around the system.
TM: Totally. He's such a smart fucker. So, that band, not only is it a great band, but its sheer existence is political in nature, it's awesome...so yeah, Minor Threat [laughs]. I think I'd play with Metallica, circa Master of Puppets, maybe even Kill'em All. Umm, who else...? Probably, like Black Flag with Dez [Cadena] singing, not later Black Flag. We were just listening to later Black Flag...ugh.
And one more.
TM: Uhh...I never saw The Descendents.
Really?
TM: Yeah. They came to Chicago once or twice while I was there and into it but something kept me away. So, those off the top of my head.
Alright. So, you guys are obviously from Chicago and I just moved back from Chicago last year after living there for four years.
TM: Cool!
So, what's your favorite venue to play in Chicago?
TM: Can I say Fireside Bowl?
Absolutely!
TM: It was Fireside Bowl, hands down.
I made it there one time. They shut it down the year I moved there and then started doin' only 21+ shows.
TM: Aww, man. The best place to play, the best place to see a show. Certainly now that I tour more, I see the national and international structure of touring and things like booking agents and guarantees and all the things I didn't know about back then. Fireside was like an anomaly. Fireside was one of the only places in the country where they would not give you a guarantee. They would not guarantee you shit! Now, if any other club in the world would do that, nobody would show up. You'd be like, "I got a van and my buddies and we need gas money, you gotta at least guarantee me $150 for the show." Fireside would be like NOPE. You show up, we're not gonna give you guarantees, but we will give you a fair cut of the door. If kids show up, you will get a fair share of their money. And obviously everyone loved it. There were no dressing rooms at Fireside, no backstage. It was a bowling alley with a bar, that's all it was! There were no real riders. They treated everyone the same, no matter who you were. You walked into that place and you sat in your van on tour all afternoon till it was time to get inside. There's no walking round back to get in, you walk right through the crowd and get on stage. It was so real and everything about it was so real and the shows were so awesome. You really just felt like you were a part of something at those shows, to have these amazing bands coming into this little venue in Chicago. It was just an incredible experience.
Well thank you. We gotta stop cause I'm gonna run outta tape. Do you have any last words or any questions for me?
TM: Umm, no. Thanks to all of our fans who are reading this and come out to the shows, the shows have been awesome. We're on tour with PETA right now; they're doing a "Meat's not Green" campaign, which is all about meat being the number one cause of global warming. Check it out at meatsnotgreen.com. Aside from that, we'll be hittin' Europe and Australia and even Canada all next year, so hopefully everyone comes out and checks out the songs and buys the new record.
Awesome, well thank you.
TM: Thank you.
A big thanks to Dave Romano over at Next Big Thing PR for settin' this up and a huge thanks to Tim and the staff that assists Rise Against - everyone was incredibly nice and helpful, some genuine folks for sure.
