Interviews

Sundowner

Interview with Chris McCaughan on Apr 22, 2007 by Archive Bot

Chris McCaughan has already made a name for himself with one of Chicago's favorite punk bands, The Lawrence Arms, but when it came time to release his "solo" material, he opted to drop the idea of a self-named release and titled the project Sundowner, enlisting the help of Jenny Choi (Sanawon) and a fellow Lawrence Arm Neil Hennessy. The project features the vocals of the less-raspy side of The Lawrence Arms in 10 new tracks, and two Larry Arms covers, on the debut Four One Five Two. It's an acoustic approach with passionate lyrics, but bass, cello, and some other surprises help to fill out the sound. McCaughan took some time before a Larry Arms show in West Dundee, IL, to talk about the end of the Lawrence Arms touring cycle, and the Sundowner project that's just getting started, with a new record on shelves now.
 
By William Jones
 
So, it's been an extensive set of tours for The Lawrence Arms in support of Oh! Calcutta! but it seems that is finally slowing down now…
 
Chris McCaughan: Yeah, as far as the tour cycle or whatever you call it—since Oh! Calcutta! came out—is over.
 
Have you had any chance to relax, or has Sundowner taken over since then?
 
CM: It's been pretty mellow. Even recording the Sundowner stuff was pretty laid back. We [Lawrence Arms] were in Australia—the last tour we did—with Frenzal Rhomb in December. We came home, and me and Neil went in the studio a week or so later and started working. We had it finished in mid-January. Since then, it's been pretty mellow.
 
Was that the first time The Lawrence Arms has played in Australia?
 
CM: It was actually the second time down there. First time we were down there was with Anti-Flag, and that was a couple years ago. That was great. Then, Frenzal offered us the tour and, of course, we took it. It's Australia, first of all, and second of all, Frenzal's such a—everyone we've ever met has told us they're such great guys and we'd get along with them so well. That tour was awesome. It was kind of a whirlwind. It was ten days, ten shows, basically flying every day.
 
I saw Brendan's post about how little you guys were sleeping on the tour…
 
CM: It was crazy. Part of it was just the nature of the trip, and part of it, also, was we like to have fun. We end up staying up too late and we have to get up early. By the time we got back from that, we were like, "Oh man, it's a good thing we don't have any tours or anything ahead of us right now.
 
Oh! Calcutta! came out in March 2006, so you guys have been on the road for awhile now. Overall, how successful has all the touring been?
 
CM: It was awesome! We did NOFX. We did Lagwagon. We did No Use [For a Name] in Europe. We did some headlining stuff. We got to tour with A Wilhelm Scream again, which is totally rad; those guys are our good buddies. We got to tour with The Draft, which was great. We toured with the Trio. It was an awesome year for us. We got to tour with a lot of friends, made a lot of new friends. For the most part, it was all bands that are, more or less, in our family somehow, whether it's Chicago connection or Fat Wreck Chords. For the most part, it's been some kind of connection. We did some shows with Chuck Ragan and Much the Same. All-in-all, it was such a huge year for us. We got to play with so many cool bands. We were touring before we did Oh! Calcutta! so it was almost like two years, really. We toured leading up to, making of, and touring after. We had such a great time. It was so cool.
 
So, that's all wrapped up, and now you're moving your focus to Sundowner. You've done years of coffee shop shows and other local shows in the Chicago area. What was the motivation to finally put a record together?
 
CM: Songs were starting to build up. I guess I started getting a little antsy. I was like, "Man, if I don't start to think about this soon, in terms of a record, in terms of what I'm actually working towards, I'm going to lose a lot of this stuff, because it's going to get old to me. It's just not going to be relevant to me anymore." I had done some coffee shop shows, a couple small events here and there, and it sort of struck me that I should really put together twelve songs that could be on a record. I started talking to Toby and Brendan about it. I was like, "I think I've got a record here. I just need a little time to iron it out, but I think we can get this together and put it out before too long." So, once Toby was like, "I want to put it out on Red Scare, and we all want to be a part of this in some way," that was my motivation to try to bring it to some sort of reality, as opposed to me just going out and playing these songs I have, and putting them on my Myspace or whatever [laughs].
 
What role does Brendan have with Red Scare right now? It seems he has taken a hands-on role there…
 
CM: He works with Toby in various ways to do stuff for records. As far as this release, because we're such old friends, he's such an integral part in helping me figure out how I wanted to do it, how I wanted to present it to people, and stuff like that. Basically, the Sundowner thing, Neil recorded it—he ended up learning all the songs and playing bass on it—Toby and Brendan put it out, Vanessa from Fat is helping us with some press for it, so it's really been, basically, the same people who work on The Lawrence Arms records, just in different ways. So, it's a really family thing, which is totally awesome. I just felt lucky that I found Jenny Choi to help me make the record a little more than just acoustic songs, with me singing.
 
Jenny Choi is from another Chicago band, Sanawon. How did you get in touch with her and finally work with her on the record?
 
CM: She was good friends with Mike Park and she played on Mike's record, a couple of Mike's records—
 
So it goes back to the Asian Man days?
 
CM: Yeah, it basically goes back to Asian Man and she lives in Chicago. We have similar friends, but we never really hung out much, but I knew who she was and I'd heard her stuff before. I knew she was talented and had a feeling she'd be right for the project. I saw her show one night, and I'm like, "Jenny, you've got to come play some cello on my record." Initially, I thought she'd come in and do a couple things—wouldn't be a big deal. I gave her all the songs about three or four months in advance so she had some time to work on it and actually write melodies and stuff for it. She's a really integral part of it. While I'm still going to go out and play shows by myself, it was a really cool experience for me to have her help with stuff she actually wanted to put on the record.
 
Are Neil and Jenny part of the reason you decided to name the project Sundowner, instead of just releasing it under your own name?
 
CM: Yeah, that's part of the reason. I think there are a lot of reasons. It's tough to release a record as your own name if your names not, you know, Mike Park. It's one thing if my name was Max Power, something you could pick out of any list of names, but really, it's a little tougher with a name like mine. It's not to say that it really would have been a big deal, but I figure if I used a band name, it gave me a little flexibility, in terms of…if at some point I can go out with a band or if I do just want to go out solo. I can kind of ride the fence on it. It's a little bit cheating [laughs].
 
"Sundowning" is in the lyrics of album, but what is the significance of that name?
 
CM: I kind of named it after that song. I wrote that song before I named the band. I figured maybe I would name that song Sundowner, and then I was like, no, I think I'll name the project Sundowner. It was just a word I liked. It's an old, shitty hotel in Reno I saw in big lights one time, when we [The Lawrence Arms] were on tour, and that's what started my brain thinking about it. I just don't want to put this out under my name. While I'm still going to get bumped into singer/songwriter stuff, I'd prefer to at least take the long road.
 
How far back does the writing of the songs for this album go? The Lawrence Arms stuff is obviously from a while back…
 
CM: Some of the songs definitely predate Oh! Calcutta! for sure. Probably one or two of the songs go as far back as 2004, which is a long time. It's been a gradual thing, a gradual accumulation of songs that I felt were appropriate for the record.
 
Specifically, why did you include the two Lawrence Arms tracks, "Boatless Booze Cruise" and "One Hundred Resolutions?”
 
CM: A little bit of it was, I wanted to do one for sure, then I thought it would be really cool to do one of Brendan's songs. Toby was really interested in hearing me do some of it stripped down. He thought kids would be interested in something like that.
 
As a Lawrence Arms fan, it's a really cool treat to hear you doing one of Brendan's songs…
 
CM: I definitely didn't want to do two of my own, and these seemed to be the ones that fit the best, to me. They seem like they could be a part of the record if you didn't know The Lawrence Arms. That was the thing that was most important to me—does this sound weird or out of place? Really, I just wanted it to sound like it belongs there.
 
As far as production of the album goes—Neil is credited for engineering and mixes, there are two other assistants, and then the band is credited for production, was everything recorded in one straight session, or was it done in parts over time?
 
CM: It was two weeks, maybe. We did it pretty much over Christmas. We actually went into the studio and started from scratch with all my demos. Started to put guitars down, started to build it up. It was actually like recording a record [laughs], totally unlike any other record I've ever recorded, because there are no drums, there are no loud guitars, so it was a new experience—a little tricky.
 
The reason I ask—and I don't mean this as a criticism—but the production sounds a bit different on different songs throughout the album, and it sounds good, but was this done intentionally?
 
CM: Yeah. Part of that, Neil and I both wanted the production to sound right for each song. Certain songs are probably a little brighter than other songs, a little bass-ier or whatever. It was a conscious effort to make each song its own thing, but they were definitely all recorded at the same time.
 
Who is Heather Hannoura and how did the concept come about for the art of Four One Five Two?
 
CM: Heather works for the Alkaline Trio. She's done all their art. She's an old, old friend of ours and mine. She did The Falcon record cover, also. So, as soon as I knew this record was coming together, I emailed her: "Please, you've got to put a cover together for me." I sent her some mp3s of some songs. "This is the general vibe of the record; I just kind of want you to do your thing. No real guidelines on it; just put together something." She ended up putting together some big collage piece that ended up being the cover. I liked it, because I think her art is really different, and also, it just doesn't look like a rock album. It's kind of a weird cover. After I saw it, it made sense to me that people would pick it up and be like, "What kind of record is this? I'm not exactly sure." Hopefully, the record I made is kind of like that, also. I'm sure there are people that have certain expectations, or are sure that it will sound a certain way, but I'm happy the art has a little mystery to it.
 
Going back to writing, what is the process like for you, and when you start writing a song, does it hit you right away—this is a Lawrence Arms song, or this is a solo tune?
 
CM: Sometimes, I think you just know. There were a couple songs that are on the record that I definitely considered making Lawrence Arms songs, but then when we were writing Oh! Calcutta! that wasn't the way we were going, in terms of what we were trying to do. It just made more sense to me, stripped down, the way they were. I've never really sat down and said, "I'm going to write a Lawrence Arms song. I'm going to write a Sundowner song," but I guess sometimes, you just kind of know. Basically, going with my instincts a little bit, in terms of what's right for what.
 
Now that the record is out, I think a lot of people are wondering if you will tour, or at least play some Midwestern shows in support of it? [Since the interview, three Midwest shows have been announced.]
 
CM: I'm looking to definitely go out and do shows. It's tough to go out on tour buy yourself, all over the U.S. without, at least, one or two other people to help you out. But, I'm really interested in playing shows, definitely around the Midwest, where it's really easy for me to travel by myself. I'm already booking shows in the Chicago area, Detroit, Milwaukee—just the stuff I can hit really easily on my own. Definitely interested in touring, especially if anyone wants to let me jump on a tour [laughs]. I'd love to go out and play shows with bands that are interested in having me around for a week or so.
 
As a solo act, is it more difficult to find tours? It seemed like Chuck Ragan was just hopping on random parts of tours here and there…
 
CM: Chuck's doing good. I'm new at this. So, I've just got to get my feet wet, in terms of what's out there for me. The record just came out the other day, so I don't really know. I know Mike Park has done a lot of solo touring, so it's possible. Again, hopefully I just get some opportunities. I really would like to. To play some shows with Chuck, even, would be awesome.
 
What lies ahead for The Lawrence Arms now? Are you all just taking it easy right now, or working on your own projects, or are there any plans in place for the next record?
 
CM: The thing about The Lawrence Arms [is] we've always just kind of let things happen as they're supposed to happen—not try to rush anything. We'll let our fate be determined slowly [laughs]. Now, we're going to play this show tonight, [then] we probably won't play a show for awhile. There has been, really, no talk of a record yet. We haven't quite gotten there. We're making no bold statements.
 
One of the things that has always struck me as odd about The Lawrence Arms is that fans tend to divide themselves as Chris fans and Brendan fans. Is this something you've noticed, and what do you think about it? Do you think that's just the result of an album like Greatest Story, where the songs are so distinctive?
 
CM: Yeah, I've noticed that. Maybe that's it [Greatest Story]. Maybe that's the curse of being in a band with two songwriters who are sometimes along the same lines, and sometimes stray from each other. I like to think that's what makes us unique and interesting. I think we took a different step on Oh! Calcutta! as a band. Kids will always find something to—
 
Divide themselves over and quarrel about?
 
CM: Yeah! It doesn't even matter if you're in a band with two primary songwriters or not; kids will always find things to talk about. That's an easy thing to talk about.
"I really like Chris's songs better."
"I fuckin' hate Chris's songs. If the band just was Brendan, it would be awesome."
You know what? Hopefully that makes for passionate fans. All I can say is, I think part of that is what led us to make the record we made with Oh! Calcutta! We really wanted to make a record that was like, "This is our band." It's not his band and my band. It's collectively all our band. We really wanted to make a record that would support that.
 
Was it only after Oh! Calcutta! that you guys started turning the mics and singing toward each other on stage?
 
CM: We actually used to do it a long time ago, when our first record came out. We were just playing shows in the suburbs and going out on these shitty, long tours that led nowhere. For one or two of the songs, we'd always face each other. Then, we stopped doing it for a long time. Once we started writing the songs for Oh! Calcutta! we were like, "Oh, this is our perfect chance to turn the mics in a little bit to sing at each other. It was always something we thought was funny, we thought probably looked pretty cool.
 
Last CD you listened to, good or bad?
 
CM: This band, The Subteens, from Memphis. They put out this record, a long time ago, and it's awesome.
 
Personal favorite track from Four One Five Two?
 
CM: "Sea of Lights" is one of my faves, just 'cause it was one of the songs that really got me going putting the whole record together. Probably that, and the ukulele song, "Midsummer Classic," is one of my faves. I think it's because it's a lot different—it's probably the last one I wrote. [Laughs]
 
Favorite poet?
 
CM: I don't know if I have a favorite poet. There are a lot of poets I like. I'm generally not a huge poetry guy; I'm more of a fiction guy. Abraham Cowley is really good.
 
Favorite band to tour with?
 
CM: I love touring with The Draft so much. Those guys are some of the greatest guys in the world. I would love to tour with them again, anytime they wanted to. We always have a great time with Lagwagon, No Use for a Name—such great guys to tour with. I feel very lucky to have toured with so many bands I grew up listening to and still listen to.
 
Favorite drink(s)?
 
CM: I do have some favorite drinks. Vodka with soda water or grapefruit juice is always really good. I like tequila, but it always gets me in trouble, so I try not to drink it.
 
Estimate for Bears' 2007 record?
 
CM: Oh, God! I think it will be significantly less than 13-3 [laughs].
 
Would you ever move from Chicago?
 
CM: You know, if the timing was right, and it was somewhere warmer, yes. But, I would never move from Chicago to somewhere where it's still winter. Chicago's the best city in the world, so if you move somewhere, the weather has to be better.